"I Was Jealous of.." I Shalini Passi Meets Barkha! | From School Days To Bollywood Wives I Podcast

Barkha: So Shalini how has life changed since Bollywood Wives?

Shalini: For me is pretty much the same I think it's changed for everybody else it's the effect that I'm having on them for me I always enjoyed working, working out being in front of the camera doing these funny things when I travel and if I was in Leh-Ladakh shooting in a monastery, then in you know in the snow and then in the in the sand. I'm the same Shalini, I'm doing the same pretty much the same things I'm just doing them in a studio uh rather than you know running behind yaks in Ladakh

Barkha: But you're saying, you're the same but it's the impact you're having on everybody, else that's different what do you think happened?

Shalini: I am as busy as I was before I'm doing almost as many shoots as I did before earlier I just did for fun now people

are approaching me or like you know news makers like yourself or you know other and uh I'm pretty much doing the same thing I have almost the same makeup and artist and hair everybody

Barkha: When you were at 'We The Women' and it was lovely to have you there with the other Bollywood wives I said to you Shalini, you're a national obsession and you said "I know"

Shalini: Yeah so I what I know the confidence that you said it comes from knowing that all this is just a passing phase or it's momentary and it's the effect of what I've done it could have had a different effect it this is the effect it's having on people but this is not my goal right

Barkha: So you understand that this is transitory it's ephemeral?

Shalini: Absolutely it will go away one day it'll go and it'll come but that's not going to define who I am or I will continue to be, I know in 24 hours what I think what I do what drives me, what I mean, how much strength it takes for me to do things and not do things I mean it's I'm not thinking about what that people will love me that people will say I'm beautiful or not beautiful or I'm young or old or my hair is nice or not nice or I'm wearing a pony it doesn't matter it's I'm already that's just for fun that putting a clip is fun for me like people have a drink people have a glass of wine at the end of the day if I want to wear a hair clip it's it's that for me you know it's that indulgence in the end I know I know what I know where I'm going.

Barkha: Where are you going?

Shalini: I have no idea lots of places hopefully and uh and

I want to keep on walking I don't want to stop because when you stop you become..

Barkha: Do you think you're a star do you think of yourself as a star that the more accurate question is?

Shalini: I always thought I'm a star it's just like you all didn't know me so in my life everybody is a star right you're the star of your own show yeah if you're not the star of your own show you can never be a star in..

Barkha: so people have discovered Shalini Passi,Shalini was the same the world didn't know her like they know her today let's start at the beginning you went to the same school as

me. You were in school with my sister Bahar I was your senior.

Shalini: I used I used to run not just me our entire class actually our entire batch used to run and hide when we saw you coming in the corridor why I have no idea

Barkha: Why? was I scary

Shalini: Yeah you're very scary

Barkha: Am I scary today

Shalini: Yeah

Barkha: What is scary?

Shalini: I think I think what is scary is that about you that you can see through people, you don't tolerate nonsense, you know your you know when someone wasting their time you can spot a person who's faffing around and who's serious, you take your work very seriously and you take yourself very seriously you have time for no nonsense and we could feel it when we were in school

Barkha: that's quite perceptive I mean I can't disagree with anything you've said

Shalini: We in school at least I in school I mean we had um friends whose sisters and brothers were senior and we used to see them and used to go go and meet them and you know uh say can we do this "bhaiya can we do this and that, can we you know can you help us in this and what and unless it was a really good thing and unless we were 100% sure of ourselves we would not even approach you because you were like "you guys are just messing it up for us, you guys are like you to destroy the image of the school". I'm like what have we done! I love I think school was

Barkha: But school was fun, the best for me I learned so much yeah your love for art starts in modern school yeah Answer: Exactly because I think my love for life started in that school because we were told from from Humyayun road that we had to play every sport participate in every activity yeah not like other schools where somebody was very good and they were asked you know that talent was encouraged we all were encouraged to go to that class I had to go I used to hate photography because, I hated the smell in the room of those chemicals initially and I and I and I hated going to that room but we had to because it was a part of learning about the pro I would otherwise I would have never known how a print is developed now I know though I did not like it but I used to go we did horse riding we went we used to go for hockey because we were in the in the in the sports team so we had to go and play hockey one day with another school team because we say you have to do it so yeah so all those opportunities that we got when you were in school you made the most of it

Shalini: I do think I made the most of it but I'm sure you too in your own way when you were that age 15 16 what did you want to be

Answer: I wanted to be an artist or an architect uh I was terrible in math so

Barkha: Join the club I used to fail math I used to fail math same really same oh my God and in fact in class 11 then I took arts and I remember, do you remember Mrs Jogendra as we used to call her 'Jugi' and she called me and in those days you know smart people didn't take arts and she said you know I'm a geography teacher but I am telling you must take science and I said I absolutely hate science I fail math I am going to be a Humanities student

Shalini: Oh my God so my entire life I thought I was bad in studies because I failed in math, now Barkha Dutt used to fail in math, oh my God so there's life changer so like yeah so I spent a lot of time studying math which I used to constantly fail in I used to get Fe anyway that's all past but uh yeah so I admired you a lot and I'm really like deeply honored that I'm here in the same platform in the same frame as you it's really an honor

Barkha: Thank you so much let's talk about what money means to you did you always have it?

Shalini: uh I was born in a business family and uh my grandparents were , Arya Samaji, "they believed in high thinking and simple living that's their Moto, my I think uh I think my attachment to wealth is very um is very complicated because there have been times where I have like given away all my jewellery shaved my hair really

Barkha: So when did that happen

Shalini Passi: Four times I shaved my hair

Barkha: Why?

Shalini: Because I just thought that you know I just felt that there was just excess of I just wanted to give up all

Barkha: Shed the baggage

Shalini: I just felt that it was just I didn't know who I was I didn't know, where I was going I needed clarity and also I also did it for my son who was you know at University so there were various reasons and it gave me a lot of peace it gave me it gave me a lot of understanding of things that the thing that I loved most which was my hair I was even paranoid about having a cut or a trim you know so particular that I wash my hair myself I'm obsessive about you know breaking it and everything and just to just shave it one day so and also it was like also like that entire time those eight nine years the dressing was very simple it was very minimal beige and white and I might you might have seen me in very simple 'saris' I used to go out very less and uh yeah my friends who know me during that phase I didn't go out at all it's like people think I go out it's actually the impression that I go out a lot I just go for like maybe some big functions take a lot of pictures I don't socialize like even now no even now like I went yesterday for Christmas day before for a Christmas party after that was the first uh social event that I attended after the series came out that's almost 3 months like beyond that I've just been doing events yeah

Barkha: But tell me we were talking about what money means to you right what does it mean to you like is it just a functional way to live the life you want to buy the art you want to collect?

Shalini:I think like a painting if you can't put a price on it right it's like a painting could be worth anything the artist has worked since he was a child his ideas, his philosophy his technique, his talent it's all on that work it's not that one particular work it's this entire journey on that canvas, so it's priceless right yeah so for me I think money is something which I use to better myself, better my environment, better the society and now better the larger audience because I feel that I'm able to give back and finally give back in a larger way so that and then of course money is really important because it also gives you security yeah it gives you for me it is like today I can say okay let me do this let me risk this and it gives you that uh independence it gives you that power that you know that I can do this I don't have to have to think about the costings of things you know yeah so that is there of course at the back of your head it's like a safety net like you can take your risk because you always have your safety net right how

Barkha: How did you meet Sanjay?

Shalini: Cousins, uh so you know Arunima Nagpal right so Anish's wedding uh I was Arunima was like in my gang one of my closest friends Arunima all of my closest friends they were all like yourself prefects and a A + students um and uh so they are my best friends from school so I was there at her sister's wedding and I was singing and dancing and my voice was better then pretty good and uh so they their cousin saw me there she went back and informed

Barkha: There's this very beautiful girl in Sanjay's family, and then her bua asked me if my parents were coming. So, I said they’ll come in the evening. I didn’t know why she was asking; I thought maybe she knew my parents. Then they all came for the su in the evening. It was an arranged marriage. How old were you then?

Shalini: I was 20.

Barkha: And you became a mom at what age?

Shalini: 21.

Barkha: So, when you think of it now, that was quite young.

Shalini: Yeah, but actually, I think it was a very good move by the universe. The thing is, I had so much enthusiasm and energy. I feel like many women who have children later don’t have the same energy. Their body recovery is different. For me, I was so excited that when I took my child to a toy store, I was more excited than my child. So, all that energy was there, and now, I feel like I’m almost living my life in reverse.

Barkha: Explain that.

Shalini: Well, at 18 or 17, I remember all the theater events we used to have. Our school was next to Mandi House.

Barkha: Exactly, yes.

Shalini: My grandfather actually built that building...

Barkha: Really?

Shalini: Yes. So, there were offers for some series and all that, but none of it happened because I had a phobia of speaking. I couldn’t remember lines. I would just blank out. Even now, if you ask me to remember lines, I wouldn’t be able to. I can speak randomly, but I can’t memorize lines. My family wasn’t very keen on the whole acting thing either. Living in Delhi is a very different world for them. They didn’t know anything about it, so that path never worked out. But now, look, I’m doing this!

Barkha: So, you say it was a good move by the universe to have married Sanjay, and we asked him what he thought about you, and he said, “She’s a queen. I’m here to serve her.” That clip went massively viral. But everyone navigates relationships in their own way. Would you say Sanj is an equal partner who enables the freedom that you sought for yourself?

Shalini: I had one condition when it came to our arranged marriage. I told my parents I didn’t want my partner to drink, smoke, or gamble.

Barkha: Why was that?

Shalini: Because I don’t drink, smoke, or gamble. I’ve never liked it. My grandfather didn’t allow us to even have a pack of cards in the house. He was very particular about morals and discipline, especially regarding alcohol, cigarettes, and all that. I was brought up by my grandparents in a very disciplined way. It wasn’t stern; it was more of the values from the post-independence era. My grandfather had very simple principles — to do good, do well for the community, do for the family. And no drinking, smoking, or gambling was a big part of that. So, I wanted someone like that. My mother said, “Good luck!” And then I found Sanjay, who did not drink, smoke, or gamble.

Barkha: And your father thought they were lying?

Shalini: Yes! He thought they were lying, but it was true. He never believed it.

Barkha: Could you live the life you wanted to live as a young bride?

Shalini: I’ve seen a lot of women find their freest phase in their middle years. But when you’re that young, you're also trying to fit into society. My in-laws were amazing, and Sanjay was great. But he was also at that age when he was working almost 10 to 12 hours a day. He’s a workaholic, and he was really focused on building his work. And my in-laws were fantastic. But living in a society where everything, from your little shoe to your toenail, gets dissected, was challenging. I came from a background where my mother and my grandparents didn’t socialize much. My mother did, but it wasn’t in the typical Delhi socialite sense. So, when I entered this new world, there were times when people would say, “She can’t speak, she can’t socialize, she doesn’t know how to entertain.”

Barkha: Who said that?

Shalini: People around me. They’d say, “She doesn’t know how to entertain, how to host a party.” I was only 20, and they would tell me to throw parties, host banquets, and make desserts. I was like, “Hello, I’m still in college!” But I learned, and now I’ve mastered it.

Barkha: Really?

Shalini: Yes! If someone told me I couldn’t do something, I had to prove them wrong. I’ve mastered the art of hosting.

Barkha: So, did you read magazines? What did you read at the time?

Shalini: I used to read 'Newsweek', 'Time', and 'Outlook'. People would ask me what magazines I read, and I’d say those. They’d be surprised and say, “Oh, you don’t read 'Vogue'?” And I’d think, “What is there to read in 'Vogue'?” I would just flip through it. We used to buy 'Time Magazine', but it was always two months old because we never got the new copies. And we used to read articles by Shashi Tharoor. I never understood why I would read 'Vogue'.

Barkha: So, this was the kind of people you had to interact with?

Shalini: Yes, exactly! And I thought, “Why is everyone so obsessed with 'Vogue'?”

Shalini: I'm already like have this security complex forever, I'm like, like, what are you trying to tell me that I can't do what you do? I say I can do this, like this. So I did.

Barkha: And if I asked you the same question today, what do you read?

Shalini: Right now, I'm just... what am I reading? I'm actually reading nothing right now. It's just that like, yeah, because if I want to read also, then there's so many things. And also, I'm like kind of a little like, you know, that prick. If I, like, if I have committed to something or somebody's asked, no matter if it's a big impact or small impact, that it pricks on me that I'll okay, try and adjust and try and do this, uh, between my prayers and meditations. I'm right now not reading anything. I have like read files which have like pending articles which I pick out and read.

Barkha: What are read files? You want to see them?

Shalini: Uh, just ask them for the read files. Yeah, but tell me about them in the meantime.

Barkha: So these are just, uh, read files are like articles and things that I don't know about or I want to know more about and I've found some interesting article. And if, like, somebody finds them for you or you find them yourself?

Shalini: Myself, I find them and I take a printout. Okay, rather than keeping on the phone, we take a physical printout and keep it and then I read it like, if suppose I'm flying somewhere, I know that I'll have two hours in the evening, you know, then I read them or suppose at night if I had like half an hour before sleeping when I'm very peaceful. So I do that.

Barkha: And you pick up these themes, so for example, it could be anything. You tell me something, you tell me a word which we having a conversation and I don't know anything about, right? So I say, oh, but I don't know anything about this, let me at least understand what she was saying, rather than saying, oh, I don't believe you and I don't, right? 'Cause you know, you can't know everything, right? Or concepts which I could be interested in, I want to further, so both ways.

Barkha: But it's interesting what you said about 'Vogue' that there's nothing to read, we flipped through the pages of it. That was then. Today you're like a fashionista.

Shalini: Do you... how often do you look at Vogue or a magazine like that?

Barkha: Actually, the thing is I don't really look at fashion magazines because one, I'm not that size, two, I'm not going for an editorial shoot, three, I don't need to make a statement. I want to wear things that I want to wear. Yeah, for about eight years of my life, I had very short hair, I could not wear prints, I couldn't wear big earrings, and I couldn't style my hair. So I want to do that. I'm not going to live by the most stunning black dress, I can do that with my eyes closed. It takes effort to actually put together a maximalist outfit.

Shalini: Yeah, it's a minimal black dress with sleek hair and red lips, is the easiest thing you can do, and for me, that does not excite me, 'cause you want an individual look that is in somebody else's idea of you.

Barkha: Yeah, exactly. I want to be able to express myself with whatever I'm wearing. Some pieces are like 20, 30 years old. Like, the 'Bieber' bags are actually very, very old. Some of them, yeah. And, uh, I mean, did you think your bags would become the kind of statement that they have?

Shalini: No, actually, you know, people used to tell me before, like, a very dear friend of mine, she said, you know, I hate these bags of yours. I was like, but why? I was like, because they're terrible. They look, look at them, they're so funny. They look like a... I said, but I love them, they like add that spark and that little fun thing element and, you know, whatever. So I never stopped wearing them. And these are my very close friends, and like, they are like, they’re super stylish wearing LP Chanel, like, you know, so they're like very, very sleek. But I have my own style. So it, it took them also while to, you know, so you're not a fashion magazine person as a consumer.

Barkha: I don't even think I'm a fashionista. It's like, I'm just wearing like any North Delhi girl who loves accessories, wants to wear everything. We are like, I mean, we are in India, it's a maximalist. We are not a minimal country.

Shalini: Yeah.

Barkha: But how was the sort of Delhi-Bombay interface? It's a very different culture, isn't it? I mean, I say this as a DHI, but what was the big discovery for you?

Shalini: I think I've been going to Bombay very, very often. My entire mother's family moved there. My mama's, masi, they all live in Bombay and I've been going there for a while. I think Bombay is like the city of dreams, you know, everybody's there to pursue something, you know, whatever they feel they cannot do in their own city, in their own state, they come to Bombay. And it's a very, very tough life there. You know, it's a tough life in terms of navigating the city, the culture. I think Delhi is more welcoming. And once you break it, it's a refugee city. I mean, yeah, we are, my grandparents, both my grandparents came from Pakistan, Gala and Lahore. And, uh, I think Bombay, it's so cutthroat. I think they, it's also, people's like, like, you know, in Delhi we will still value the person afterwards if they're not doing well or they, you know, they'll still, people might make fun of, but in Bombay they have no time for you. Just, if you're over, you're over. It's like that. It's a very, also, they're living for the camera. Everything is Friday to Friday, you know, that, that is their obsession, you know? I don't see that in any other industry, whether it's fashion, whether it's art, like art borrows, like fashion borrows a lot from art. And though, even the art world is very, very, uh, not very inclusive, but we are really trying to make it inclusive.

Barkha: This concept of a living for the media or for the camera that you said about Bombay, elaborate on that.

Shalini: I think, uh, what cinema gives people are the dreams, but the thing is their own dreams, I feel, are getting lost because they have, they feel they have like five, six years, yeah, to make the best of what they had, make the best of what they had, which is very sad because so many of them are so way talented, yeah? And everything, everybody is put on this, you know, that that is your time from like 18 to like, you know, whatever. And then after that, if you make it, then you can carry on. 'Cause how many people, how many actually make it to Madhuri, Deepika, or Alia like that, you know?

Barkha: So that has to change, and that has to come from the audience. Unless the film industry doesn't make examples like that, it's not... audience will, you have to give something to the audience. It's like the fashion designers in the art world, they don't care if the audience is consuming their art. They just create.

Shalini: They just create, and if they criticize, they take it well. If they are appreciated, they don't care, you know, if they put in a museum after they, you know, so that, that risk I think more people should take.

Barkha: So you think Mumbai is just living for Instagram?

Shalini: They are actually living for Instagram, because I think I feel like when I'm seeing like some of them, don't, are not even doing films. They just get ready and they just, somebody told me, yeah exactly, somebody told me that there are people who go to the airport not because they have a flight to catch, but because they just want to get packed. They asked me also, who has many people, oh when are you coming in? They like to, like, you know, come as like, hello. I like, where from the airport? Like, for what? For what joy? Yeah, like, I'm like running from the airport, like running to wherever I have to reach.

Barkha: And yeah, I'm like for years, the world that didn't know you, you and Sanjay were written about as among the closest friends of Shah Rukh and Gauri. Is that a relationship that has been a cornerstone of your life or not really? What is the meaning of a relationship like that?

Shalini: You know, I think, or was that just a media myth? I don't know, you tell me.

Barkha: I'm asking you because like, you know, when people would always say, oh, Shah Rukh and Gauri, their friends are Sanjay and Shalini, right? So like, do you know a side of them that the rest of the world doesn't?

Shalini: I actually, Sanjay grew up with them. Yeah, and Sanjay grew up with them, and Sanjay is very good with relationships.

Barkha: And you're not?

Shalini: I am sort of floating. I'm just like very, very moody. I think Sanjay is very, very good with relationships. He's very responsible.

Barkha: Is he better at keeping up, keeping in touch with people and you're not so good at it?

Shalini: I understand that. I'm kind of not good at keeping up with people 'cause I'm always so busy and living in my own head. I'm good, like I'm there for you, like 100%, but if someone's in trouble, floy, I'm also very floaty and I'm also like very moody when it comes and I'm also like, but I think with, I think with Gauri and Shah Rukh, I think they are, uh, not just for me, I think for many people they are really strong, solid people coming from Delhi, living in Bombay, making their life there, but they have stayed in touch with all their friends, which is quite incredible. And I think like they have given strength to me at least. Gauri has, I got mad when I was very young and, um, she's someone who like always said like, you know, she always spoke her mind and she always said what she, you know, what she felt. And that was a big thing for me because I knew that she was coming from a good place. I knew I could trust them 100%.

Barkha: So what they gave me and a lot of my other friends see, sometimes people just say things, right? But with them, I knew whatever they were telling me, whatever feedback I was getting, was 100% genuine.

Barkha: And so, what do you think you

Barkha:Have you learned to not be moody about things? You just said that you're a very moody person, right? So let's start with what gets you into a bad mood.

Shalini: Sun, heat. You live in Delhi, which is among the hottest cities in the world. Heat, heat. Okay, I think no one likes heat. Apart from that, nothing else. I'll be very happy, very happy if it rains, in the Rain, snow, hailstorm. Very happy. The sun, though, yeah, it just drains me. It just drains me. I'm theic so my hemoglobin drops, my BP drops, and you know, I've fainted also. I get like a blackout. So when people are thinking that I'm ignoring them, actually, I'm really not ignoring them. I'm actually having a blackout. Like, for real. I'm walking somewhere and it's hot and sunny, and there's a moment where I feel like I'm sinking, but I’m like, you know, just trying to get through it. It happens very often in the heat.

Which takes me to this complete fascination with what Shalini Passi eats in a day. Why does she use that straw to sip her whatever?

Shalini:Anything, uh, have you seen all the videos and memes like I’ve seen you? You’re so... I’m not dedicated. I’ve dedicated certain hours in the day because simply, you know why? They're not just saying that you’re beautiful; they’re not just saying we love your hair. They are sharing what they are feeling. They are sharing that they started doing this and they’re doing this. And I didn't—like, I was bitching about some girl, and then I went and made up. They're sending me these stories like...

Barkha: You know, I'm going to help my women friends. I've dedicated some time to help them out. How do you manage to do it?

Shalini: Honestly, I feel if someone reaches out to me for help, I must do whatever I can to assist. For instance, just this morning, I sent an audio message to a complete stranger.

Barkha: You sent an audio message to someone you don’t even know? What did they ask you?

Shalini: Yes, she reached out via DM and said, "I live in London, and I’m suffering from severe acidity. Can you help?" So I sent her an audio with advice. I suggested she have soft water after meals, or if she can't, then soft in powdered form. Also, avoiding cold water and having room temperature water with cumin or black salt can help.

Barkha: That’s amazing! You're doing this even for strangers?

Shalini: Yes! I don’t mind. If I can help, I will. It's my personal pledge. I don't even care if it’s someone I don't know.

Barkha: You sent an audio to a stranger on Instagram. How do you find the time to do this?

Shalini: (laughs) It’s okay! When someone asks for help, I’ll help if I can. This was a stranger reaching out to me on DM. She messaged, saying she lives in London and suffers from acidity. I don’t mind replying if it’s something I can address.

Barkha: That's incredible! What makes you go the extra mile for people like this?

Shalini: It's my personal pledge. I just feel that if I can help, even if it’s a stranger, I should. I’ve always tried to dedicate my time to helping others, even when I didn’t have the energy. But it's a commitment I made, and it gives me purpose.

Barkha: I’ve also seen you commenting on memes about yourself and laughing at jokes. What’s the funniest thing you've heard about yourself?

Shalini: Everything is funny! People find it funny, but I just think it's like... you ask your grandmother, and she’ll tell you that what I’m saying is right. She would say, "She’s absolutely right." It’s all basic advice that my grandmother taught me. I’m just passing it on.

Barkha: Did you ever think you’d become such a pop culture phenomenon? Little girls are dressing up like you, with hairbands and bags, sipping drinks with straws.

Shalini: No, I thought I was the opposite of a pop culture figure. I didn’t think anyone would admire me like that. I thought, "Who is this?" But I guess it happened! My style isn’t flashy; I don’t know why people relate to it. It’s just me. I wear simple clothes, but maybe it’s because I work out and try to stay fit.

Barkha: You’re right, style aside, life can’t be all glamorous. There must have been difficult moments. What’s been the hardest phase for you?

Shalini: The most difficult phase was when I had spine and joint issues and a lot of weakness in my body. I didn’t have the strength to work, to sit up, or to focus. But I started my foundation at that time, and I realized I had to focus on something else. I dedicated my energy to helping people, even when I didn’t have the energy to do anything for myself.

Barkha: That’s such a strong mindset. But what about moments of sadness? What makes you sad now?

Shalini: Honestly, I don’t think much about those past phases anymore. Everyone goes through tough moments. For me, keeping my health in check is my priority. That's what I focus on now.

Barkha: What kind of son do you want to raise?

Shalini: When Robin was a kid, I told him something simple. I said, "If you do well, everyone will praise you. But if you make a mistake, people will say it’s because of me." I always tried to make him understand the importance of discipline and not to get caught up in the insecurities of others. I wanted him to understand his privilege.

Barkha: What values do you hope he learns from you?

Shalini: Honesty is the most important value, and also not letting jealousy or vengeance affect you. I’ve had my moments of insecurity, but I never let jealousy control me. Instead, I’d work harder to improve myself when I felt insecure about something.

Barkha: You’ve spoken before about wanting a ‘normal’ life. How did that turn out for you?

Shalini: (laughs) It didn’t turn out like I imagined. I tried to live a normal life, but it felt boring. I wanted to be like everyone else—go for lunch, relax, and enjoy. But I still found myself doing things my way, carrying my own food, and sticking to my health habits. It’s just who I am.

Barkha: You don’t seem to watch much television. What do you do for downtime?

Shalini: During the pandemic, I did watch shows like *Emily in Paris* and *Versailles*, but I don't watch much news anymore. It’s filled with negativity and doesn't lead to real change. I prefer reading news on apps, so I can focus better and avoid digital distractions.

Barkha: So, what’s next for you? What unfinished dreams do you still have?

Shalini: Honestly, I’ve already achieved a lot. I’m grateful for the love and support people have shown me. But now, I feel like I need to prove myself again, to work even harder. There's always room to grow, and I want to continue on this path.

Barkha: You’ve mentioned you’re the last of the ‘socialites.’ Do you still see yourself that way?

Shalini: Yes, in some ways. The term ‘socialite’ has changed a lot. It used to be about hosting charity events and bringing people together for a cause. Now, it’s about influencers and branding. I still do it for the joy of bringing people together, but it’s not about gaining anything. It’s about creating meaningful experiences.

Barkha: If you could talk to your 15-year-old self, what would you say?

Shalini: I’d tell her, "Don’t stress. Everything will work out." I was never anxious as a teenager. My family was supportive, and I had a wonderful time. Life was simple, and I had fun. There was no need to worry.

Barkha: What advice would you give to the young girls who follow you?

Shalini: Be a good human being, don’t hold grudges, and always stay true to yourself. Don’t compare yourself to others—everyone is on their own journey. Acknowledge the good in others and never be afraid to admire them. That’s the key to growth.

Barkha: Could do what they do, but inside that emotion was coming out as jealousy, but the act, the emotion, was that I wanted to be intelligent, I wanted to be able to speak well, I wanted to have beautiful hair, I wanted to win the race. So, I took it and I just worked harder. If I failed at something, then I had no right to be jealous of that person. Because if they are doing it so beautifully and I can't do it, this means they are great. They deserve to be where they are. So, that understanding came very, very young to me. Of course, I've had moments of insecurity, but it's insecurity and how do you address it? It's very easy: if you admire someone, just say it. Initially, people used to say, "Oh, she's so fake, she's saying that she admires them." I say, "But you know what? It's a quality. It's a blessing. If you're able to speak well, or if you have great skin, or if you have a beautiful life, or if you're talented, you have to acknowledge it." And when you acknowledge it in the other person, you're hoping that you get some of it. That's the law of the universe. Also, it makes you lighter to just say, "Oh my God, I could never be like so intelligent or I could never be so articulate as you are," and then that appreciation somewhere down the line, ultimately, makes you lighter.

Barkha: Talking about psychology, I think I was reading another interview of yours where you spoke about your experience with your therapist. You said you went to your therapist and said, "I want a normal life," and that doesn't work out very well because you realize that normal is boring.

Shalini: So, we had a little bit of time during the down period, so I said, "Listen, let's not just try to like, you know, we have a good four or five months, let's try to make me a normal human being." So, she said, "Yeah, sure, that'll be great, let's try it." So, you're trying to do normal things. I said, "What is a normal thing?" I said, "I just want to be like my friends and my neighbors, you know, like... what do you do?" I said, "I'll go for lunch." So, I went for lunch.

Barkha: You became a "ladies who lunch."

Shalini: I used to go for lunch. Even now, I do, when I want to. No, everybody goes for lunch when they have time. The fact is that you either eat a certain type of food, or you don't eat that food. So, I said, "You know what? I'm not... I said, okay, I'm going to go for lunch, but I'll carry my own food." So, I went for lunch and I carried my food. I always carry my own food regardless of where I go. I mostly carry raw food, which is raw in the day, and then cooked after 6 p.m. According to Ayurveda, raw food is very good till sunset. Anyway, the other thing was, like, what was the other thing for lunch? "Don't do 100 things. Don't pre-plan, just live in the moment." I said, "What moment?"

Barkha: You didn't want that very slow life, you're like a packed life.

Shalini: Yeah, don't do like every day, don't do a class on Zoom. You know, like take a break, watch television.

Barkha: What do you watch?

Shalini: I don't watch television. I watched during the pandemic. I watched 'Versailles.' Now, watching series is actually homework for me, and I hate doing that homework. But I did see Ury's show, I really admire her. And I saw 'Versailles,' then I saw 'Emily in Paris,' which I was just doing something else while watching.

Barkha: So, watching television is normal for you.

Shalini: I tried to do that, but actually, the problem with watching television is that, you know, you tend to eat... always. It's like I've had my meal, I've had my very healthy meal and it's very substantial, and then you switch on the television. And that entire thing of the past 20 years, your body, those cells start craving junk food. It's not funny, the cell memory. The television comes on, and you want to eat unhealthy food.

Barkha: The cell memory.

Shalini: Yes, switch the television off. I don't remember the last time I switched it on. I watch Netflix, but I watch murder mysteries and I stay updated with the news, but I don't watch television news.

Barkha: Do you watch news?

Shalini: No, I stopped watching news about eight years ago because I felt that one, the scams happen and actually nothing really... all the investigation never really amounts to anything. It's a lot of noise and nothing changes. It's a lot of noise, lot of emotions. Unless you're an expert on a topic, you can't just go on and talk about it. That doesn't make sense. It's not like a movie where you're asking for opinions.

Barkha: So, what do you read?

Shalini: I read news on an app. I have the BBC, I have all the apps. So I just read, and subscribe to a few things, and then you have your "read files." I have the "read files" because I don't want to go digital. When you open a digital iPad, then your options are limitless, right? So, the task at hand gets distracted.

Barkha: So, the moment you open the phone, you get distracted by something else.

Shalini: Exactly. You forget why you opened your phone. So, I’d rather not look into the device.

Barkha: Let me ask you, in the end, what's your unfinished dream? What's next?

Shalini: I think, you know, I have won a lot of awards. I have to work for them because, honestly, I don't think I deserve so much. But now, everybody's given me so much love. I have to now work for it. It's like always before, I think I've got everything. Now, I have to work harder. And, you know, whatever they think I am, I have to prove it.

Barkha: You still feel you have to prove yourself?

Shalini: Not for before. I never felt I had to prove anything because I’m leading my life, I pay my taxes, I do everything by the book. I don't need to prove anything to anybody. But now, honestly, with so much love, affection, and adoration, with all these awards, I feel I have to prove myself.

Barkha: You told Outlook that you saw yourself as the last of the socialites. Is that how you see yourself?

Shalini: Yeah, because, no, I mean, of course, there are people who have wonderful dinner parties, but the term "socialite" has become such a negative word. Honestly, in the 1920s, people were like, you know, she was in New York, they were having charity galas and everything. And now, people like... you know, you have a host who's paid to invite people to events. High-net-worth individuals are targeted and are paid to come to events. They're dressed head to toe in brands. So, here I am, just doing this for free, for the joy of entertaining, having people come into my home, whether it's for the art fair or anything else. It's for the joy of entertaining and mixing with people. It has no monetary gain to it. Nobody's sponsoring my party. Nobody's telling me who to invite. It's my thing, and I’m honored. Some of the big Bombay and Delhi parties are paid for, of course.

Barkha: So, tell me, what would Shalini Passi tell her 15-year-old self in Mod School?

Shalini: Hard work, and study hard. Come on.

Barkha: Something more than study hard. Everybody tells us that. Our parents used to tell us, "Study hard."

Shalini: I never studied hard. I did everything else but. But today, with the life you've lived and the lessons you've learned, and what you've learned about living, what would you tell that girl in school?

Shalini: I don't think I was anxious about anything. I used to wake up in the morning at 4:00 and go swimming. I think I did everything.

Barkha: You were a happy child.

Shalini: I was a happy child because my grandparents supported me. My mother only had one rule: don’t have boys call you, and that was a deal-breaker for her. I went to every class, from 'bharatnatyam' to anything else.

Barkha: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh gave you an award, didn't he?

Shalini: Yes, he actually gave me an award. I wish we had all those cameras back then. I wish we had the documentation of that time because it was a pre-mobile phone era, pre-camera era. Everything was just a memory.

Barkha: Do you have a photograph from that time?

Shalini: I don’t have any photos, but I remember that he was the finance minister at that time, and he came for the annual function. I was on stage for a performance. We had this stage program with Mr. Chatur. After that, I ran for another drill, a welcome drill, and then a mountaineering drill. I had to change outfits in between all of this, with the help of a friend. After the performance, he said, "She’s our art club president," because I was the president of the art club. That's my memory from that time.

Barkha: So you have no advice for your 15-year-old self because you were so happy?

Shalini: I’ve learned from my mistakes. But for young girls who follow me, I would say that the most important thing is to be a good human being. It's easy to say that, but in the end, don’t hold grudges because it only harms you. People realize their mistakes over time. After the show came out, I had 25 or more people from the past who had hurt me 15 or 20 years ago call and message me, apologizing. They admitted that they thought I didn’t know, but I always knew. And despite everything, I still invited them into my home, still welcomed them, still reached out to them. They all admitted they lived with guilt for years because I was gracious and kind despite their wrongdoings.

Barkha: You once said, "I like things more than people." Do you still stand by that?

Shalini: Yes, of course. People disappoint you, but things like artworks, monuments—they transcend time. For instance, when you stand in front of the Taj Mahal, or some ancient monument, you feel so small because it has stood there for centuries. I love that feeling. When I visit places, I get lost in the moment. I think it’s a deep thought, and I meant it.

Barkha: I just want to say that you’ve emerged as a national obsession. Every detail of your life sparks a conversation. More power to you, and may you continue to live larger than life.I think that’s a dream everyone should have. Thank you Shalini

Shalini: Thank You, Barkha.